Proverbs 7:7
I saw among the simple, I noticed among the young men, a youth who lacked judgment. He was going down the street near her corner walking along in the direction of her house!
WHY in the world do we as Christians go Pubbing & Clubbing?????? The moment I hear about this I immediately realise that this person is on dangerous ground & walking right into the devil's territory. This is what the Bible calls, "her house". We too often forget that the devil is out to destroy your very life and destiny and he knows just how to make you fall for his tactics. The Word says to not even go down the street to where "she" lives! If you do you are like an ox being led to the slaughter or a deer stepping into a noose not realising this will cost you your very life!! The Word says to "Keep to a path far from her and do not go near the door of her house!" How many countless christians have I talked with who have went "one time only" to end up with a scoundrel who rips their heart out and leaves carnage behind. You can try to convince me and even convince yourselves about all the reasons you are going but dont be simple and lacking judgement. Be wise and dont go.
Wisdom is crying out to all of us. We have to be the ones to acknowledge what the Word says and then make a decision to DO what the Word says. If we pass over this advice then the Lords hands are tied! Be careful where you go! Dont cross the line onto the devil's territory. He is an enemy and his places are mine fields of destruction ready to explode and destroy your life. Beware of the enemy's territory - stay far away!!!
Come on you singles let me hear your thoughts on this very Hot Topic!!!
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12 Comments So Far
- Phillip Elliott I usually wouldnt comment on something like this, however this topic is very close to my heart as i use to run a pub-evanglism team and by that merrit, feel i have something to contribute. I personally do not go clubbing as I would struggle to justify the need to go. We need to realise that we actually have two topics here, not just one. the first being heart motivation and the second being self-control (or lack of it).
- Richard Very eloquent Phil ... I can see the dangers Julie is alerting us to, whilst understanding your viewpoint on this as well.
- Chris I agree with Phil for the England area that I have explored but, being from California I agree with Julie that most clubs in the US area I have been too are the Devil's territory. The US and England though are totally different experiences. I have become disgusted with clubs in the Los Angeles area and refuse to go to most clubs because of how the devil works in these places. but, being in England I have received a different vibe. Here in England I can feel how the British treat alcohol differently. For the United States I think that not all but a lot of clubs should be avoided. Just my opinion from what I got from being here in England.
- Ric This is definitely a tricky one and I agree with many of the points Pastor Julie has made. The main theme of the book is to watch out for wine women/men. And yes, pubs do have many who lack judgment. I think the key question raised is WHY Christians would want to go to these places.
- Ric With regards to the point made about pubs and clubs being the territory of the Devil. I agree that some places the devil will regard as his. However, similar to what Phil mentioned, we now have the Greater One inside of us (something people did not have when proverbs was written). I refuse to let the devil claim something as his which leads me to try and avoid him. These are similar tactics to what a bully employs. I am NOT afraid of the devil and he holds NO authority over me. We need to be aware of his temptations and tactics but refuse to accept them.
- Karen S Praise God that we have Pastors that care so much for our Spiritual,emotional and physical state of being. This subject has obviously stirred up strong emotions and comments/opinions amongst the males in our church family. Lets see what and if the females of the church have comments/opinions regarding this. I myself think that JB and the guys have some valied points.Until the day that all are saved the devil will have rule wherever the human race allows him too.
- julie Oh I love all this stimulating conversation!!! How great to know that people are reading the articles that we are writing.
- Martin Kavanagh Part 1: Pastor Julie is WHBC Co-Founder and our Queen. Her life and ministry amongst us is unsurpassed. She and Pastor Matt are always led by the Spirit. Pastor Julie is both Apostle and Mother to our congregation and if she has been led to raise these issues to the WHBC congregation and those who access our website, at this particular time, then it is because it is 'now' Word of God to us, not just a discussion point. She is watching over our souls! She does so in a manner that always builds faith and encourages us. Her admonition is for our good and will result in even greater fruitfulness in our own lives and ministries. This is not a cultural issue. Sin crouches at the door; the work of the Devil is subtle and undermines us incrementally if we are not alert. I have been a Spirit filled Christian for nearly 30 years. The late Pastor John McKay, author of The Way of the Spirit, said exactly what Pastor Julie has. I have heard Pastor John say this myself in person, i.e that he eschewed pubs/clubs as the Devil's territory. Look at histories of all major revivals: in all instances the pubs shut for lack of business, as people flocked to Church to throw themselves on God's mercy. Pubs and clubs went bankrupt when the presence of God was manifest. This has happened in recent history, but we appear to have short lived memories. I would say the following by way of guidance, noting that Pastor Julie's most excellent advice is particularly to singles:
- Martin Kavanagh Part 2:
- Martin Kavanagh Part 3:
- Karen S Well said Martin. Very controversial topic.I think this blog has had the most response to date. Lets have some ladies comments on this. As Martin mentioned let us respond more to the Pastors blog whatever the topic.
- Phillip Elliott I agree with what PS Julie says about not being guided by culture or by our peers, especially when it comes to drinking and I agree that at times it is necessary to abstain from it. However my arguement is because I know I have no issues with alcohol, I can drink or not drink for as long as I need too. I have free will and I know it has no power over me, I would argue it is those who do not drink that have more of a free-will issue with alcohol more than those who do. Therefore the emphasis shouldn't on those who drink (through choice) to abstain but rather for those who do not drink to realise that drinking (with wisdom and moderation) is a God-given enjoyment and should be treated as such.
Let me make my primary point clear, there is nothing wrong or sinful with going to the pub or to a club, these are just venues and in themselves, are not inherently evil. Where the folly lies are the motives that you go to these places with and not walking in wisdom.
Like most british people, alcohol is a normal and acceptable part of life and by that token, pubs are great places to kick back and chew the fat of life with friends whilst over a pint. We have the spirit of self-control, this allows us to go into these places, have a drink or two, enjoy ourselves and leave with no ill effects. If someone wants to err into sin, they do not need a pub or club to do so, they will find a way, most likely on there own time and more likely in private. It is just unfortunate that something as innocent as having a pint on the weekend is synonymous with an immoral act. It is true that alcohol and a lowering of self-inhabition are closely twinned, however if you're out for a quiet evening or just to be with friends (heart motivation) then you wont stumble, it is up to each person to know there limits and to decide before going out, how much to drink, avoiding these places are not the answer, we have the 'overcomer' living in us not the 'side-stepper'.
Also we cannot expect unsaved people to come to us, some of the best conversations i've ever had, were in pubs, talking to people who are having a pint while sorting out the lazy and the lame in the daily racing post paper!
posted February 23, 2010 at 10:19 PM
posted February 24, 2010 at 10:08 PM
posted February 25, 2010 at 04:50 PM
These are my thoughts and experiences...
I was saved just over three years ago, 8 months after I finished my degree. During my time at university I would frequently go out with friends to pubs and clubs with two motives in mind:
1. Get as drunk as possible.
2. Meet girls.
It is clear that I lacked judgment and this led to many unpleasant experiences.
During my walk with the Lord these desires began to subside and I found that my priorities were changing. I was no longer driven by a shallow, unfulfilling lifestyle. I now find myself in a position where I have seen both sides of the coin. I still go to pubs regularly (about once a week) and this is where Pastor Julie's key question enters the discussion. If I know pubs have people visiting them who lack judgment and are driven by motives not dissimilar to the ones I used to hold, WHY would I choose to go?
I have three friends who I have known since High School (over 14 years) and I am very close to. They are all decent guys who have good ethics and morals, however they are not saved. I have found that when I meet up with them in a social environment that they find relaxing and at ease in it gives me an excellent opportunity to share the gospel and witness to them. They have seen (and will continue to see) the changes that have taken place in my life since I began my relationship with Jesus. This makes them very curious indeed. They will ask me questions about GOD and His views on various topics without me having to mention Him. I am in faith that the seeds I am planting will come to fruition. If I do not meet up with them I would not be able to share the good news. They would still meet up in the pub but instead of listening to the good news, they would be listening solely to the folly of those who lack judgment.
See next comment...
posted February 26, 2010 at 01:22 AM
My final thought as I have been writing this broadens the topic wider with regards to missions. There are many countries around the world that the devil has a grip of and will claim as his territory. Should we avoid these countries as they are full of people who lack judgment and have impure motives?
I feel that I have added an essay rather than a comment! I did not intend to write this much. It is also very late so I apologise if I have rambled.
posted February 26, 2010 at 01:22 AM
posted February 26, 2010 at 07:16 PM
I think most of you know my motive in writing is not to condemn anyone but to get us thinking about what the Word says and cause us to be listening close to the Holy Spirit who lives inside of us all.
I do want to challenge each of us to not be led by our peers, not to be led by our traditions and not to be led by our culture. We need to be led PERSONALLY by the WORD & by the Holy Spirit. Every move we make must be directed by Him.
I also want to challenge us to see if we can purposefully not do these things... like a fast to see if these things have a particular hold on our lives or an undue foothold that has wrapped itself around us. Can we not go to those places for 3 months or 6 months? Can you NOT drink for lets say 6 months. This would be a good way to see if these things have you or you have them.
Thanks for the comments guys!! Lets hear from some girls on what they think!!!
posted February 26, 2010 at 10:16 PM
posted February 27, 2010 at 01:51 AM
1) If you do go to a pub/club; be certain you are Spirit led and that you are truly there to be a witness. If you have not witnessed fruitfully i.e. with the outcome of Salvation to your own neighbours in your own street, you are deceiving yourself if you are justifying your presence at a pub/club as being for evangelistic purposes. Go home and witness in word and deed on your own street first.
2) Never go anywhere on your own. If you believe you are led of the Spirit of God to a pub/club, be assured Father will send you in twos or threes as a minimum; this is for accountability and reputational reasons and the power that comes from unity in the Spirit. Do not go there on your own, or for solace, comfort or other soulish reasons. You will walk straight into a trap. You may not be Brad Pitt or Megan Fox. You do not need to be. You will lay yourself open to proposition by some predatory individual. Sex is cheap; especially if you are partly inebriated.
Look to whom we seek to emulate. I would love my life and ministry to be as pure and fruitful as Pastor Julie's or Pastor Matt's. Remember all the signs and wonders that accompany her and Pastor Matt. This is as a result of s truly disciplined Christian life. Who are your heroes of faith? Smith Wigglesworth? Dr T L Osborne? C T Studd? The revivialist Charles Finney? Dr Billy Graham? Pastor Kenneth Hagin? Pastor Kenneth Copeland? Pastor Julie, Pastor Matt? I say 'Amen' to all these. Do you really think all these people have leveraged Apostolic strategies affecting the nations in the way that they have, without walking the utmost in terms of Spirit led purity and diligence? Not one of them would glibly venture into the enemy's camp. Broad is the road to destruction. Our role is to redeem our schools and communities by being salt and light and offering distinctively different lifestyle choices. I love the work of the Romance Academy people. And even today it has taken an American Research specialist to advise the British Nation about the rise of sexually explicit music vidoes and advertising, and the adverse impact it is having on our nation's children. Wake up Britain! You are succumbing to a Continental spirit of humanism.
posted February 27, 2010 at 01:56 AM
Consider what the Word of God says. Finally, we should remember our brothers and sisters in Christ in WHBC and indeed elsewhere. Many have a USA, African and other origin. In these countries it is utterly inappropriate for Christians, especially those in Leadership, to indulge in licentious behaviour of any kind, least of all drinking. Let us never be a stumbling block to our brother or sister through our own behaviour, as Scripture rightly exhorts us. This is not loving and love is the Golden Rule at all times. All the above said in love and encouragement; let's generally respond a lot more to our Pastors in future on this blog, as they share with us crucial insights into contemporary Christianity and victorious lifestyles. Regards all, Martin K.
posted February 27, 2010 at 02:00 AM
posted February 28, 2010 at 11:11 PM
I would be happy to stop drinking, say for a month, if someone who doesn't drink (and has no previous personal issues with alcohol) would step out of there comfort zone and have a drink. I think that person would soon realise that it is the 'fear' of drink (or losing the ability to choose to drink or not, to be precise) that is the real enemy here, not the drink itself. Therefore this business of drinking or not drinking has more to do personal understanding and matureness in this area, and you cant get that kind of understanding from being on the outside looking in, you have to experience it for yourself and in doing so, when wisdom and self-control is applied, to realise in actual fact there is no real danger, just a perceived one. "Don't let your pre-conceptions block new conceptions" - Dr Jonathan David.
posted March 01, 2010 at 06:39 PM
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